Kick Kickstarter to the CURB!!!

[crash override]

First, read this and sign the attendant petition: http://www.dosomething.org/petition/kickstarter

Second, if you have a Kickstarter campaign going, PULL IT. If you're considering a Kickstarter, DON'T. They must learn that this WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. Period.

Third, BOOST THE SIGNAL. Far and wide.

6/21/2013 ETA: They've apologized, as well as announced they're making a $25k donation. It's a start. Much less pissed, but not completely ready to let this slide. Let's see if they back up their words with action.

Comments

[angela-n-hunt.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[chordatesrock.livejournal.com]

This is that bad?

Question: isn't it too late to stop him from being paid for this now? What action could Kickstarter still take, or is this boycott retributive?

Other question: aside from Kickstarter, what is the best way to crowdfund expensive projects?

[magenta-girl.livejournal.com]

I know a lot of people use Indiegogo with good results.

[chordatesrock.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

You DID read the petition, right?

Kickstarter can stop funding for this, under their terms of service. It's whether they CHOOSE to that's at issue here. Apparently they are aware of the petition and choose to do nothing, which is basically thumbing their noses at the rest of us.

Kickstarter is NOT the only crowdfunding site out there, BTW. Seek out other sites like Indiegogo, Crowdtilt, and AngelList.

[chordatesrock.livejournal.com]

I read it, but it said that the deadline was 11:59 pm EST, which has already passed. Is there a delay between the deadline and the project creator being paid?

Thanks for the info on other crowdfunding sites, everyone! :)

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

Unknown, but still...the idea that this kind of thing is happening and that Kickstarter is profiting from it is enough to make you want to do something, isn't it?

[chordatesrock.livejournal.com]

If I don't have a specific goal, I will flail about ineffectively, which is not helpful to your cause at all. Hence: what is the goal?

Can Kickstarter clarify or change its policies to prevent this from happening again?
Can Kickstarter make amends by donating its profits from this transaction to an effective charity for victims of sexual assault?
Can Kickstarter make amends by donating its profits from this transaction to a socially responsible campaign?
Can Kickstarter issue an apology?

I would feel better about this if there were a specific thing we want Kickstarter to do, at which point we'll call off the boycott if they do it. I would also feel better if this were explicitly intended to end the company because no forgiveness is possible, but I'd like it to be explicit either way: is this pressuring them to take specific action, or is it retributive?

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

I think all of the above would be acceptable.

I have the distinct feeling that Kickstarter won't be going under anytime soon over this, but it certainly wouldn't make me lose sleep if we at least get their attention and force them to live up to the letter of their policies.

I agree, there's no excuse or forgiveness possible for this, but I also have no illusions...Kickstarter is the proverbial 900-pound gorilla of crowdfunding. But if it's possible to hurt them, even just a bit, I'm all for it.

[chordatesrock.livejournal.com]

Okay. I'm with you until Kickstarter either takes concrete steps to reduce the risk of this happening again (such as instituting a policy that discovering something like this even late in the campaign results in the automatic cancellation of the campaign and return of funds to donors), or uses its profits from this transaction to make amends. After that, I'll un-blacklist them (for myself; you can make your own choices).

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

That's fair. I would not want to dictate your choices any more than I would want you to dictate mine.

[naamah-darling.livejournal.com]

Indiegogo is what we use, and we've had zero problems with them so far.

[chordatesrock.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[naamah-darling.livejournal.com]

I saw that. Then I plugged in Assassin's Creed and killed guards in Forli with a fishing pole until I stopped wanting to punch people in the throat.

SO. PISSED. OFF.

Awesome that you thought to signal boost here, because it totally did not occur to me.

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

What better place for it? But thank you. If you know of other places to boost the signal, please do so. Beats punching people in the throat, and no risk of charges being pressed.

[stryck.livejournal.com]

While we're at it, let's stop using any publisher who ever printed/reprinted Mein Kampf, and boycott those music studios that record hiphop music. Maybe for an encore we can denounce everybody who dares to sell Bibles or Korans, too!

Okay, that's my grumpy response. More seriously, what about all the good work done through Kickstarter? Why is it Kickstarter's fault that some jerk found enough support to get his project funded? Shouldn't we be mad at his backers and him instead?

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

Sure we can be (and are) angry at them!

One of the reasons Kickstarter has succeeded so well for so many artists is that they do spend time vetting projects so people feel confident that they are supporting worthy art.

This was not worthy art. Kickstarter failed in its vetting process (I don't really blame them for that--nobody is perfect and these kinds of abusers are usually very good at hiding what they're up to) but--and this is a big but in terms of Kickstarter's credibility as a supporter of worthy art--Kickstarter sent the money before they took the time to investigate whether there had been a violation of their terms of service.

It's not about whether Joe Rape-Promoter can publish his book, it's about whether buyers of art will continue to trust Kickstarter enough to feel good about continuing to donate to Kickstarter projects. If you're thinking "I might be supporting rapists and teachers of rapists" when you see a Kickstarter page, even if the artist is your grandmother, you will probably not feel good about sending money through Kickstarter.

Kickstarter's reputation matters.

Every artist who uses Kickstarter relies on that reputation, as does every buyer who sends their money off to someone they've never heard of, hoping to get a product in the mail or e-mail some months in the future.

As to Rap publishers, well, they rely on their (bad-ass) reputation to attract customers too. I don't properly grok _why_ that reputation is good for their business, but I observe that it is so.

[stryck.livejournal.com]

I can see reason why somebody who is concerned might notify Kickstarter of a violation of their terms! That puts us on Kickstarter's side, which makes them more likely to listen. To treat the entire production as if one mistake ruins their entire business is obscene.

And while a rep for being on the side of angels is good, there are plenty of businesses that allow any viewpoint so long as the money is good, and that doesn't really bother me. It's at least a guiding principle that can be steered.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

Yes, many businesses succeed on profit motive alone. But people like to have their daydreams about art being fine and pure.

I think the reputation of being on the side of the angels has been an inherent part of every Kickstarter project, and is a good part of why Kickstarter has succeeded so well.

Here's hoping they can fix that reputation.

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

Kickstarter WAS notified. Days ago. Their "response" was to delete negative comments from their FB page. Never a good idea.

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

Agreed. In ANY business, reputation is ALL.

Every artist who uses Kickstarter relies on that reputation, as does every buyer who sends their money off to someone they've never heard of, hoping to get a product in the mail or e-mail some months in the future.

And their reputation has taken a serious hit. Whether the hit is fatal depends on their actions in the coming days and weeks.

[chordatesrock.livejournal.com]

Do most publishers delay everyone's work to make sure it isn't objectionable? Besides, Mein Kampf is a historical primary source, and it's important to remember.

[i-id.livejournal.com]

So, because Kickstarter didn't pull a project, you want all of those people who are in serious need of funds to move to a much less visible and well-supported platform that cannot help but earn them less money?

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

No, (answering for myself) I want Kickstarter to maintain (well, right now repair) their credibility as providers of a different kind of service than traditional publishing.

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

Seconded. The apology they posted, as well as the actions they have taken, are a positive first step toward this. Next should come more oversight into the projects they present.

[ellenmillion.livejournal.com]

"Sorry, this project is no longer available." It looks like they listened!

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/we-were-wrong

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

For my friends, here is a copy of my comment on this, left at the "we were wrong" apology page:


I strongly request that you add, in your rules, a provision that lets you put a hold on paying out a "funded project" if, shortly before the end of a project, you are informed of a possible violation of your terms of service.

I am glad to see this apology. I am, however, still upset that you gave this person money for this project. Even though you didn't have time to properly investigate between when you heard the allegations and the end of the project, you did know about them prior to sending the money. It seems to me that once you were notified of this issue, the funds should have been held pending an investigation of the problem.

I second (or third or whatever) the request that you immediately take steps to retrieve the funds sent to support this illegitimate and harmful project. I would like to see you hold the person who received those funds financially liable for violating your policies and terms of service.

Thank you again for your apology. I will be watching for additional action in this matter.

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

I concur. Here's what I replied to their tweet.

Good first steps, but the creator of this campaign needs to be held accountable for violating your TOS. Plus more oversight plz

[tprillahfiction.livejournal.com]

Was this sicko still funded?

[crash override (from livejournal.com)]

Unfortunately, yes.

[bryant]

I actually have no problem with Kickstarter thinking this one over rather than taking quick action, even though it meant the guy got his money. Two posts ago in this community someone was rightfully complaining because PayPal cut them off without warning. We've seen a lot of other instances where PayPal or Etsy or whoever acted quickly and hurt creators as a result.