Just a thought and a query

[ladyqkat.livejournal.com]

After reading this post by ysabetwordsmith and the post of haikujaguar she referenced, the tiny little gears in my brain started turning and got me to wondering.

Please bear with me while I ramble this out. Then, if deemed too off topic, I will delete it if requested. This applied mostly to those who work with the written word, but with a few perspective changes could apply to any artisan on this forum.

I am somewhat of a history buff and I was thinking about when Dickens published his stories in newspapers. This could also apply to Mark Twain or any of the dime novel writers of the 1800's. Much of Dicken's stuff was social commentary, but, even though we refer to them now as classics, they were, for the most part, I believe, published in what was then considered a new format and, (I am somewhat hazy on this part so if anyone can correct me, feel free) not well received by reviewers (or whatever they called them then) of the times.

We who are attempting cyber publishing or cyberfunded creativity/crowdfunding are, for our times, in a similar position that Dickens, Twain and others of their time faced. How to get those that set the tone of public opinion to take our efforts seriously and with legitimacy?

I don't have an answer, but there are many people on this forum who may have either a part of an idea or a direction to go that will help the majority of us. Publishing houses have not always been what they are now. Many started from a desire to get novelized newspaper serials out to readers who would not or could not afford to buy a daily/weekly paper. We need to find a similar avenue for our works.

Can we discuss this? Either in this post or subsequent posts? Because I know that the answer is out there, we just need to dig for it.

ETA: If you haven't read this post by wyld_dandelyon, go read it. She has some very interesting things to say about this entire concept.

Comments

Yes...

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

This is totally on topic and exactly the kind of conversation we need to be having.

>>How to get those that set the tone of public opinion to take our efforts seriously and with legitimacy?<<

It would be nice to have the establishment recognize our work. However, my main goal is exposure -- the public itself, the audience. The establishment is a means to an end. Same with money: I want to make money from my work, but I don't feel compelled to do that through conventional publishing. If it's more efficient and lucrative to market things elsewhere, I'll do that. I still submit some things to conventional markets, but my attention is drifting away from there because some other venues have more of a payoff. I think that's true for a lot of creators (frustrated by dwindling markets) and readers (bored by Same Old Story). If the established venues can be convinced to help promote cool new things, terrific, go with that. If not, we can just as well build something else to do the job.

To get people to support a project they're dubious about, you need to show them: 1) why it is niftier than they thought, 2) how it is connected with something they already think is nifty, and/or 3) some ways(s) it will benefit them. If they have specific concerns, it helps to address those.

Some possible approaches to connecting cyberfunded creativity to conventional publishing: 1) Direct the attention of reviewers and other people to the best examples of free CFC material. 2) Tell them about projects that are in their favorite genre or field. 3) Point out that CFC is attracting new fans who are willing to spend money and generate word-of-mouth advertising -- and who might be enticed to try conventional products if those were connected.

[jolantru.livejournal.com]

We need to find a similar avenue for our works.

Indeed.

For me, I see cyberfunded creativity/crowdfunding as part of the changes/evolution in publishing. The traditional publishers are now (very) slowly catching on - some publishers now have gone digital and offer e-books.

And I do feel as - as a former editor - that web fiction is as legitimate as print fiction. The only trick is to get the more traditional publishers to see that. Perhaps, people are people: they want to see tangible products. For me, I still like the feel and smell of books and paper under my fingers.

Perhaps, right now, we are seeing another version of the birth of the printing press (Early Modern) - the Net is providing the impetus and the platform. I think people still need to get used to newfangled stuff.

[ladyqkat.livejournal.com]

So, the main question is how do we do that?

The 1800's saw the advent of the dime novel - cheap, often trashy escapest adventures for adolescents. That morphed into magazines and novels featuring various genres. And then the public started demanding quality in their reading material.

Publishers, in order to keep their more sophisticated audiences, started demanding quality from their writers.

In this cyber-age, we, the writers, are trying to police our own quality. That some of us might need editors for our work to become the best writers we can be is a given. But it will be better if we can demand quality of ourselves from the get-go.

I think that if we can do the above, then contacting editors and publishers who have a strong cyber presence already might be easier. Publishers like Baen Books (http://www.baen.com/), Asimov's Science Fiction (http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0908/tableofcontents.shtml), maybe get workshops like Clarion West (http://www.clarionwest.org/) to look us over and perhaps offer suggestions.

There is a lot of talent out there. Established paths are being overrun with people either trying to get on them or those already there kicking up so much dust that newcomers can't be seen.

This may be heresay, but Stephen King submitted a book under a pseudonym to see if it could stand on its own with his name on it and it was rejected right off. I have also seen 'established' writers let their quality drop so much that their lastest novels, although bestsellers, are pure tripe.

[jolantru.livejournal.com]

*nodding* Perhaps, it's time to take the path lest trodden? ;)

I am thinking more 'indie' publishers, those who are open to new ideas and are not afraid to test the waters and swim in them. I personally feel that Baen, Asimov's Science Fiction and even Clarion West (and East) are too traditional and strait-laced. But then again, this is my personal opinion. I am not against these venues - but they are the established publishers of SFF and might not listen to non-traditionally-published writers/authors.

So, start small, but start spreading the word. I suggest approaching the semi-pro SFF magazines - they are more or less open to new material.

[ladyqkat.livejournal.com]

Another resource we can look at is print on demand publishers.

I know of one that publishes mainly textbooks, but they do have a few authors who have written books that may not have much demand in the regular publishing trade, but bring in a tidy bit of change for the authors.

[jolantru.livejournal.com]

I will gently nudge my publisher contacts to see if they know any leads. ;)

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

One of my thoughts on growing readership is to take flyers to cons I attend, and leave them on the freebie table. I did this at this weekend's very tiny convention, so I don't know if it's a fair test. The flyer was the entire flash-fiction I first posted to introduce my world here, with a note that more in the same world is available at http://wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com/

I want to get some artwork on the flyer; I'll eventually report here as to how the experiment is going once I go to a convention or two with more than a few dozen attendees.

Has anyone else tried things like this?

[ladyqkat.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I haven't been to cons in years, however (you knew there was a however coming, didn't you?), I have many friends who live near con venues and attend them. I might be able to bribe cajole them to take some fliers to cons if I can provide artwork and copy for them.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

If it proves to be an effective tactic, some of us who live in different areas might do an exchange - each print and take a few flyers for all of the folks in the exchange to cons they attend - though we'd have to think hard about how cost-effective it is, and how to make sure no one got stuck with an unfair share of costs and/or work.

I think we need to acquire more data before getting that ambitious, but it's something to keep in mind, if the experiment works.

Hmm...it occurs to me that I also usually do panels. That will add another factor, since flyers won't only be sitting on the table.

Oh, well, I'll forge forward and see what happens.

[jolantru.livejournal.com]

We do not have many cons where I live (Singapore). The most recent one we had was a gaming con called SPORE-con, run by my husband and a group of volunteers from the wargaming, boardgaming and general gaming community.

Putting flyers on the freebie table sounds good.

I do my self-promotion via Twitter.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

How is that working for you?

[jolantru.livejournal.com]

At the moment,responses have been so-so. I got some people checking the stories out via Twitter - but so far no actual interest shown.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

How long have you been doing it?

[jolantru.livejournal.com]

A couple of months, I think.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

So you're still just starting to build an audience there.

I'm trying to figure out what I should be doing to grow my audience; so I'm trying to learn what works for others, and to understand why it works!

[jolantru.livejournal.com]

Yes. As I am slowly finding out , audiences are becoming really selective and pick/choose the stories they like. The same goes for the range of web fiction I get to see on Twitter. So, my projects are up against countless others.

Likewise, not all my Twitter followers are SFF fans. Some of them are mundane, so stories like "Oysters, Pearls and Magic" and "The Book Of Phoenii" might not appeal to them.